Regarding the beginning of progress in 1200, there is a substantial literature on economic “efflorescence”, and Joshia Ober documents the case of Ancient Greece:
I am very interested in the case of Ancient Greece, particularly Athens. I seriously debated including it in a list of societies that experienced progress. Ultimately, I decided that there was not enough hard evidence for the material standard of living of the people who lived in the society to include it.
When I wrote my book, I was not aware of the book that you linked to. Perhaps if I had done so, I would have included it. I will be sure to take a look.
The main differences between Ancient Greece and later Commercial societies were:
1) Very inefficient agricultural system (two-field system) that produced much lower food surpluses
2) Widespread use of slavery, even in industries where free labor is common in other societies
It is obvious, however, that Ancient Greece shares many of the characteristics of Commercial societies. I am going to be writing many posts on Commercial societies, but here is a brief mention of the concept in an existing post.
I am very skeptical of the "Classical Greece had a real income similar to that of 1920 Greece" given the number of industrial technologies that were available (although were not necessarily owned by typical people). But maybe the linked book will change my mind.
I think that Ober is persuasive in the fact that Ancient Greece is competitive in terms of per capita welfare (not scale: progress is not only about per capita welfare, but also about population) with at least XVIII century Europe.
He also shows surprising equality among citizens, that were around half of Athenian population in the Classical period, and shows that beyond Athens, the ecology of Poleis was relatively democratic and substantially richer than any large area from that time to Modern Europe. For me is an important confirmation of the “competing jurisdictions” theory of efflorescence. You really need poltical competition al least for launching progress.
Regarding the beginning of progress in 1200, there is a substantial literature on economic “efflorescence”, and Joshia Ober documents the case of Ancient Greece:
https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691140919/the-rise-and-fall-of-classical-greece
Modern estimates suggest that Classical Greece had a real income similar to that of 1920 Greece...
Thanks for the comment, Arturo.
I am very interested in the case of Ancient Greece, particularly Athens. I seriously debated including it in a list of societies that experienced progress. Ultimately, I decided that there was not enough hard evidence for the material standard of living of the people who lived in the society to include it.
When I wrote my book, I was not aware of the book that you linked to. Perhaps if I had done so, I would have included it. I will be sure to take a look.
The main differences between Ancient Greece and later Commercial societies were:
1) Very inefficient agricultural system (two-field system) that produced much lower food surpluses
2) Widespread use of slavery, even in industries where free labor is common in other societies
It is obvious, however, that Ancient Greece shares many of the characteristics of Commercial societies. I am going to be writing many posts on Commercial societies, but here is a brief mention of the concept in an existing post.
https://frompovertytoprogress.substack.com/p/why-you-need-to-know-about-society
I am very skeptical of the "Classical Greece had a real income similar to that of 1920 Greece" given the number of industrial technologies that were available (although were not necessarily owned by typical people). But maybe the linked book will change my mind.
Take care.
I think that Ober is persuasive in the fact that Ancient Greece is competitive in terms of per capita welfare (not scale: progress is not only about per capita welfare, but also about population) with at least XVIII century Europe.
He also shows surprising equality among citizens, that were around half of Athenian population in the Classical period, and shows that beyond Athens, the ecology of Poleis was relatively democratic and substantially richer than any large area from that time to Modern Europe. For me is an important confirmation of the “competing jurisdictions” theory of efflorescence. You really need poltical competition al least for launching progress.
Yes, I made the same point here (and throughout my book):
https://frompovertytoprogress.substack.com/p/why-we-need-decentralized-government